ProMaster Camper Van Conversion -- First Trip Lessons

This is a report on our first trip with the new RAM ProMaster based RV conversion van.

It provides some info on how things worked out:

How did it work out? Overview
How equipment performed
Fuel economy
Things we need to add or change
A few pictures on the road
Comments/Questions

PM RV Conversion on the road
Camping at the Goosenecks -- sourthern Utah.

Go back to the main camper van conversion page...

Important Update

The material on these pages describing our camper van conversion has been moved to our new new site dedicated to efficient RVs and camper vans.

The new site covers all the material here and adds a lot of new material on other camper van conversions, camper van design and build, resources for people converting vans, other efficient camping vehicles, new ideas in efficient RVs and camper van travel hints.

The new site is here...

I'm leaving these pages here as you may have bookmarked them and the Comments section has some good suggestions, but I suggest that you go to the new site -- I won't be updating this material anymore.

Thanks to all the people who read these pages and especially to the people who left comments and suggestions! Feedback on the new site is very much appreciated.

Gary

How did it work out? Overview

The ProMaster van worked well. On the highway it rides nicely, handles well, reasonably quiet, parks easily. Its not quite like driving a car, but close. One thing I really liked about it is that the big windshield is nice for looking at scenry.

The PM works well on unpaved back roads. It has good ground clearance and its small enough to maneuver well on back roads. Traction is good. Its not a 4WD jeep and not made for jeep trails, but it did fine on unpaved, narrow, bumpy, back roads.

So, for our needs, this version of the ProMaster looks like a good choice.

The simple conversion is also working out. We have just the basics, but (so far) we have not missed having all the extra stuff that would come with a larger RV. There are a few things we want to change/add (see below), but overall we are quite satisfied.

How Stuff Performed

PM Van

Overall, the PM did well and we have no serious complaints. The van engine, transmission, steering, brakes (other than squeaks), lights, heating and AC, radio, ... all worked well.

The sliding door on our PM can be a bit balky. Sometimes you close it from outside, and then it can't be opened using the outside handle even though its not locked. It still opens from the inside, but takes a couple tries. This on the talk to the dealer about list.

The only other thing was the somewhat squeaky brakes that many have reported on. Its not that much of an issue for a road trip where you don't do much braking, but its a small problem (wife would say large problem) in city driving. Hopefully RAM will have a solution soon.

Garmin GPS

We have the Garmin 760 RV gps and it worked well and we liked it. Screen is large and easy to read (its mounted just aft of the RAM clipboard on top the dash). The Garmin interface is very easy to use, maps and place locations (in our experience) were accurate. It is far better than the manufacturer installed GPS we paid a ton of money for on another vehicle. It has an option for a backup camera, which we did not get as we already had the RAM backup camera, but it might be a good option if you don't already have the backup camera.

Fridge

I made a wiring error that ended up cutting off the power to the fridge. Since when I first hooked up the fridge I checked it and it worked, I assumed when it would not work for the trip that there was something wrong with the fridge. So, we ended up just buying ice bags and using it as an ice chest.

I should have pulled the fridge out and checked the wiring as it would have been easy to fix on the road, but I jumped to the conclusion that there was something wrong with it and it would need to be repaired. Based on the use as an icebox and a bit of running it on electricity after we got back, it looks like its going to work out well, but no on the road use yet.

Furnace

The furnace got quite a bit of use as temperatures were generally chilly. It worked fine with no problems at all. The noise level was OK and it did not keep either one of use up at night. The outside noise level was fine.

Electrical System

To the extent that we used it, the electrical system worked fine.

We had a chance to test: charging from an electrical hookup, chaging from the van alternator/battery system, minor use of the inverter to power 110VAC stuff, powering misc 12VDC items. Did not blow any fuses or need to change any wiring (except for my mistake on fridge wiring).

On most nights we did not have an electrical hookup to use, and even with the furnace running quite a bit, the house batteries were fine in the morning. While we drove enough each day to recharge the batteries, I think that a couple days even without the solar hooked up would have been fine.

We don't have the solar panels installed yet, so did not test charging from the PV panel.

Propane System

The propane system worked fine. No problems or leaks and the CO and Propane gas detectors never peeped.

Because the weather was cold and we used the furnace a lot, we decided to swap out the propane cylinder at a hardware store that offered the trade in your empty BBQ cyl for a full one about a week into the trip. This worked fine and took less than 5 minutes. We probably could have made it home without the exchange, but the fact that I forgot the scale to weigh the propane cylinder meant I could not tell exactly how much was left in the old cylinder, and we thought it was best with the cold weather to be conservative and change it.

The way I measure the amount of propane left is to weigh it with a fish scale. This is quite accurate given that the cylinders have the empty weight stamped on them, and the propane wieghs 4.2 lbs per gallon. The only negative is that to weigh the cylinder I have to undo 4 wing nuts and pull the cover off the the propane compartment -- this is a bit of a pain, but I think I'm going to keep using this system rather than installing a gage.

Stove

The stove worked fine and cooked well. Manual lighting not much of a chore once you get used to it.

The stainless steel stove cover does not fold down to fit perfectly flat on the counter top -- rather, one corner is up a little bit above of the countertop. This makes for a rattle when driving. We ended up just putting a dish towl over the burners and then closing the cover. This eliminates the rattle, but seems like the cover should fit flat and not rattle as it comes.

Sink and Plumbing

The whole fresh water and grey water systems worked fine.

With no flush toilet and no shower, water use was very moderate. Even though our tank is only 17 gallons, we we only refilled once during the trip.

The grey water tank was emptied twice during the trip, and the little hose and valve setup worked fine.

The pump and sink arrangement worked fine. The Shurflo 4008 pump worked very well and handles low flow situations better (more smoothly with less cycling) than I remember the older Shurflo RV pumps doing.

Before we left, I added a very simple vent at the top of the grey water tank that consists of a hole at the top of the tank with a short tube connected to it to vent the tank. This results in smooth draining of the sink with no burbles. Without this vent line, the sink draimed slowly and with some burbbling. At some point I plan to extend the vent tube to a higher point so that if the grey water tank fills up, it won't drain water out the vent line.

The homemade grey water tank is (so far) doing well and showing no signs of leaks or problems.

Composting Toilet

I'm afraid we failed to do much of a test on the composting toilet. We used the urine diverter and pee bottle part multiple times every day and it worked fine. But, we used the composting poo part not at all as there was always some kind of toilet or out house around. Will try to do better on next trip. But, there may be a message here that for a lot of camping a pee only toilet may be enough.

We did make use of the toilet at a seat a lot, and the cushioned top was definitely worth doing. This also makes me think that the swiveling passenger seat would be a good option -- its a handy place to have a seat.

The only change we plan to make for now on the toilet is to try to get a larger pee bottle in. As several people told us, the 64 oz bottle we have now is too small.

Curtains and Shades

The Eurocamper shades for the front of the van and homemade Reflectix shades for the back worked just as expected -- no problems. Given the cold temperatures, the added insulation they provided was welcome.

Dog

The dog did fine. Most of the days while driving he just used one of the regular beds (good views out the windows and comfy sleeping), and at night we placed his pad between the two bed platforms near the rear doors.

Fuel Economy

Fuel economy and carbon emissions are important to us. We chose the smallest PM (136 WB) that we thought would be OK for camping, and we worked on keeping the weight of the conversion down. The only exterior drag producers are MaxxFan and running board.
Full up weight on the road for trip, about 6500 lbs.
We drove with fuel economy in mind -- went 60 to 65 mph on freeways, and 50 to 65 mph on two lanes with average near 60 mph.

I kept track of mpg (miles per gallon) both with computer and using actual gallons from fill ups.
The computer reported anywhere from 0.1 to to 1.2 greater mpg than actual calculations -- weighted average was 0.56 mpg higher.

Full trip was 2065 miles from Bozeman, MT down through south Utah canyon country and back.

Grand average for 2065 miles was 20.2 mpg on computer and 19.6 mpg on actual calculations.

Breaking the mpg down by type of driving:

Freeway driving at 60 to 65 mph: 20.5 mpg
Two lane roads at 50 to 62mph: 19 mpg
Side trips up into the mountains on good paved roads: 18.5 mpg
Back roads, slow, twisty, sand/gravel 5 to 15 mph: 15 mpg

These are actual mpg based on fillups. Not sure I believe the poorer mpg going slower on paved two lane roads -- have always done quite well on mpg for this kind of driving on other vehicles.

This was all on winter formulated gas. FuelEconomy.gov says the winter formulation cuts mpg by about 3.5%, which would raise the numbers above by about 0.7 mpg.

We only had 430 miles on odometer at start of trip, so there may be some breakin still happening, and that may raise mpg a bit (or not?).

This is nearly twice the the mpg we got on our past RVs, which were not huge ones by any means, so we are feeling pretty good about the PM. Would love to someday have an RV that gets 30+ mpg, but this is good for now.

Things We Need to Add Or Change

I guess the main thing was that the van and conversion worked well -- I'd be happy to go out again with no changes. But, there were a few things that could make life on the road better and smoother.

This is the "to-do" list of changes for the next trip, or as soon as we can get to them:

Access to Under Bed Storage -- Most of our storage is under the two bed platforms in the back. The way we access this now is that the bed platform lids that support the mattresses just hinge up to provide access to the storage. Two things make this less than ideal: 1) we use the storage a lot, so we are constantly in and out of it, and 2) the beds tend to be the accumulating place for odds and ends that are out (computer, books, cloths, ...), and to be able to get to the storage you have to move this stuff and then llift up the storage lid. It would be nice if at least some of the storage under the beds had a more direct way to get at it that did not require moving other stuff.

Still thinking about how best to do this -- if you have any ideas, please send them in.

Table -- I built one of those small dinette tables to fit between the two beds in the back -- the type used on RV's a lot. The idea is that you can quickly set it up for a meal, and then take it down and stow it at other times. We found that it was more trouble than it was worth and whenever its up its always in the way. Stowing the table top and the pedestal is also a pain.

What we are going to do instead is to cut out a couple of flat thin "trays" that are about 20 by 20 inches. When not in use they stow between the mattress and the bed platform (they are thin enough not to make a bump). When you want a table type surface, you pull out the tray and place it on top the mattress surface. It provides plenty of flat surface area for table activities. It will have a non-skid surface on the bottom so it does not tend to slide off the mattress.

Securing Mattresses -- The passenger side mattress tends to slide forward when we brake to a stop. We will add a plywood end plate at the forward end of bed platform that will act as a stop to keep the mattress from sliding forward. Sliding side to side does not seem to be a problem even though its not restrained.

Specialized Storage -- We want to add some small, dedicated storage for a few things. This includes: paper towel holder, a few things at head of bunks to stow: books, clock, glasses, phone/tablet, watch, flashlight, bear spray, ...

Electric Cord and Grey Water Drain Pipe -- While we have storage for both of these inside, they are used outside and can get dirty. I would like to add either some type of outdoor compartment, or store them in the space inside the rear doors. If stored in the rear doors, they would be accessed by opening the door from the outside, swinging it open, and then reaching the cord and drain pipe coil from an opening in the inside panel of the rear door. This would not be practical for a normal size grey water drain hose, but ours is relatively small in diameter and only handles grey water.

Microwave -- We would like to add a low power microwave just to make cooking faster and easier when we don't feel like doing real cooking. This hinges on finding a good place for it where it is easy to use and does not get in the way of other activities. The house batteries and inverter are sized to run a small microwave and not need to have an electrical hookup to use it.

Outside Shower -- Might add an outside shower head and hose at the back doors. Just to wash the dog (and maybe us) off. This would be easy to do.